Robert Spencer rankled by Muslim rights hearings, blames Muslims for Islamophobia

Robert Spencer

Robert Spencer rankled by Muslim rights hearings, blames Muslims for Islamophobia

Robert Spencer has a very big problem. Important people in high places are catching on to the fact that Islamophobia is a form of bigotry as vile and dangerous as anti-Semitism.Senator Richard Durbin (D-IL) plans to consider “measures to protect the rights of American Muslims” in a March 29 hearing. With the recent barrage of Qur’an-burningsanti-Muslim hate protestsanti-Muslim hate crimes, and White-supremacist-inspired anti-Sharia laws in many states, it only makes sense that a responsible government will move to protect a vulnerable minority. But not if you’re Robert Spencer.

In his latest excuse to hate on Muslims, he writes:

On a day when Islamic jihadists exploded a bomb in Jerusalem that murdered at least one woman and wounded thirty, and when Islamic jihadists opened fire on and killed two Christians outside a church in Pakistan, Senator Richard Durbin (D-IL) announced that he was going to hold hearings on the rise in “anti-Muslim bigotry.”

This opening paragraph displays the stupidity of Spencer’s thinking: violent fringe extremists strike in far off parts of the world and somehow all Muslims, especially American Muslims, are implicated, and because all Muslims are collectively guilty, we shouldn’t be concerned if peaceful, law-abiding Muslims lose their constitutional rights. Most Jewish people, like Lesley Hazleton, can recognize this as an obvious example of “the stereotyping of millions of people by the actions of a few,” no different than equivalent attacks lobbed against Jews by anti-Semites. In this case, the glaring similarity between Spencer’s Islamophobia and classical anti-Semitism cannot be missed.

Spencer then takes a cheap shot at Rep. Ellison, whose moving testimony displayed the humanity of a people Spencer would like to dehumanize. He writes:

Ellison used the bully pulpit King gave him to paint a lurid picture of Muslim victimhood, all the while saying nothing (of course) about the sharp increase in jihad terror plots in this country over the last two years. How can Durbin top that?

Actually, it was King who was in control of the bully pulpit. Nevertheless, when Muslims criticize government policy or Islamophobic hate, Spencer dismisses all such criticism, valid or not, as simply whiny, Muslim “victimhood.” Once again, Spencer precisely displays the sixth point of the Runnymede Trust’s comprehensive definition of Islamophobia: “Criticisms made of the West by Islam are rejected out of hand.”

Predictably, Spencer claims “Muslims” (meaning all Muslims in all times and all places forever) are solely responsible for the venom spewed at them through politicians, pundits, and countless blogs. Taking the typical ritual shots at CAIR, he writes:

If anyone in the United States today is suspicious of Muslims in general, it is because of those jihadis and others like them – and because of Muslim spokesmen like Keith Ellison and CAIR’s Ibrahim “Honest Ibe” Hooper, who never acknowledge that the Muslim community in the U.S. has any responsibility whatsoever to teach against the jihadist view of Islam that they supposedly reject.

Of course, nearly every mainstream American Muslim organization has led public campaigns against terrorism and extremism: CAIR’S “Not in the name of Islam” campaign, MPAC’s anti-terror campaign, ISNA’s history of counter extremism and promoting tolerance, youtube videos by respected American Muslim leaders, and the list goes on. With respect to CAIR, anyone who wishes can read for themselves what a prominent leader in the organization believes. But none of that matters to Spencer, who plays the game of “six degrees of people who don’t eat bacon” to connect anyone and everyone to the allegedly omnipresent Muslim Brotherhood. He continues:

The “anti-Muslim bigotry” industry, in sum, is generated by Muslims and perpetuated by Muslims. And only Muslims have the power to end that bigotry.

Perhaps, in a Freudian slip, Spencer admits that Muslims are facing a mounting bigotry industry in America; but rather than see this as a problem (because he is a big part of that industry), Spencer wants you to think that Muslims deserve that bigotry. So how can Muslims end such bigotry, you ask?

Here’s how they can do it, if they care to:

1.     Focus their indignation on Muslims committing violent acts in the name of Islam, not on non-Muslims reporting on those acts.

Okay, “if they care” (because, according to Spencer, Muslims need hate crimes to score political points) Muslims should focus all their energy on fringe extremists and basically stop criticizing Islamophobes. Just shut up and take it, alright?

2.     Renounce definitively, sincerely, honestly, and in deeds, not just in comforting words, not just “terrorism,” but any intention to replace the U.S. Constitution (or the constitutions of any non-Muslim state) with Sharia even by peaceful means.

Okay, Muslims should denounce the non-existent conspiracy to overthrow America. Nevermind that even ultra-conservative fatwas (Sharia legal verdicts) demand that Muslims obey American law. Good Lord, this is like asking Jews to denounce the fictional plot of the Elders of Zion! What’s next?

3.     Teach, again sincerely and honestly, in transparent and verifiable ways in mosques and Islamic schools, the imperative of Muslims coexisting peacefully as equals with non-Muslims on an indefinite basis, and act accordingly.

Spencer knows very well that the majority of modern Islamic seminary institutions and the ordinary Muslim masses are not adhering to the 12th century jurisprudence of the Abbasid Empire. Shaykh Al-Azhar Mahmud Shaltut’s treatise, Qur’an and Fighting, makes this perfectly clear (peace is the norm, war is the exception). But again, basic knowledge of facts on the ground threatens to diminish the fat cheques his boss Horowitz cuts for him every month. Anything else?

4.     Begin comprehensive international programs in mosques all over the world to teach sincerely against the ideas of violent jihad and Islamic supremacism.

Academic studies (you know, those conducted and reviewed by real scholars) have shown that terrorist radicalization doesn’t take place in mosques, but that doesn’t stop Spencer from promoting forged statistics and demanding Muslims solve a problem that doesn’t exist. Are you done yet?

5.     Actively and honestly work with Western law enforcement officials to identify and apprehend jihadists within Western Muslim communities.

Spencer probably knows (or should know) that Muslims have been responsible for thwarting numerous terror plots, or that there are plenty of Muslim cops who put their lives on the line every day for their fellow citizens, or that Muslims loyally serve in our country’s armed forces. But none of that is important when your day job is to hate on Muslims, right Spencer?

If Muslims did those five things, voila! “Anti-Muslim bigotry” will evanesce almost immediately!

Guess what, Bob? Muslims have done all those things and more, but you intentionally hide these facts from your gullible conspiracy-minded audience, lest your network of closed-information systems dissolve in light of the truth. Hence, the obvious need for Durbin’s hearings, which are bound to strike a devastating blow to your hate-filled machinations.

Reza Aslan was right. The day is growing closer when people will catch on to your scheming and these hearings are bringing that day even closer. Perhaps one day we will wake up and, Viola! Anti-Muslim bigotry will evanesce almost immediately! But that would put you out of a job wouldn’t it?

Better start working on your résumé, Bob.

44 thoughts on “Robert Spencer rankled by Muslim rights hearings, blames Muslims for Islamophobia

  1. “Okay, Muslims should denounce the non-existent conspiracy to overthrow America. Nevermind that even ultra-conservative fatwas (Sharia legal verdicts) demand that Muslims obey American law. Good Lord, this is like asking Jews to denounce the fictional plot of the Elders of Zion!”

    -ROTFL
    Spencer is like the real life elmer fudd

  2. No surprise that liberals defend Durbin. He is known for his hatred of American soldiers. Plus, Muslims have been caught inventing “Islamophobia.”

    • “Plus, Muslims have been caught inventing “Islamophobia.””

      Oh really. Do you have any photographic evidence depicting a pesky Mooslim “inventing” Islamophobia? Or will you insist that the Runnymede Trust, that defined Islamophobia in 1997, are secretly taqiyya-sprayin’ Muslims.

    • No surprise that liberals defend Durbin. He is known for his hatred of American soldiers.

      - Somehow, according to Rocky Loon’s funny logic, Dick Durbin rightfully saying that the treatment of Guantanamo Bay prisoners is comparable to the treatment of prisoners by the Nazis, Soviet gulags and Pol Pot = Dick Durbin’s hatred for American soldiers.

      However, contrary to such silly ideas that troglodytes (such as Rocky Loon) come up with, the reality is that one does not equal the other. Durbin was simply calling something (i.e. the treatment of Guantanamo Bay prisoners) like it is (torture, comparable to what the Nazis, the Soviets and Pol Pot did), which has nothing to do with US soldiers in general, or whether he likes them or not.

      In fact, I’ll say the exact same thing:

      The US government’s treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, is comparable to the treatment of prisoners by the Nazis, the Soviet gulags, and Pol Pot.

      Don’t like it being said? Then change the treatment of the prisoners so it won’t be.

      • Liberals like Dick Durbin are known for their hatred of the military. It’s not their only example of anti-military bigotry

        Fort Hood shooting
        Phony soldier Jesse MacBeth
        Murder of William Long
        Vandalism of military recruitment centers
        CodePink
        Protests against soldiers
        Calling soldiers “war criminals”

        • Can you confirm that all Liberals, including Dick Durbin, support the above actions? They seem to love their country just as much as everyone else.

          Quite funny how you lump all people into one group. You do that with Muslims and then do the same with people of opposing political views.

          What about the Westboro Baptist Church, do you believe that they are also part of the evil Leftist-Mooslim alliance?

          “anti-military bigotry”

          Lol. Anti-Muslim bigot whines about bigotry.

          • By that logic, you’re an anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-military bigot. You support the Westboro goons because you think that smearing the military is “free speech”, yet supporting the troops is hate speech. I haven’t heard one liberal denounce anti-military bigots from the “peace activists” and “tolerant” leftists. In fact, LoonWatch was even sympathetic to Nidal Hasan.

          • LOL. Wow you really are grasping at straws here?

            Me, support the WBC? :lol: Dude, they believe that me and pretty much everyone else is going to hell. I was just making a point that they really hate the military and that they aren’t Leftists no matter which way you look at it.

            But it’s really funny how desperate you are that you have to deliberately misread my comments. It’s okay, better luck next time…

            “In fact, LoonWatch was even sympathetic to Nidal Hasan.”

            *Yawn*. You see, when adults talk, they usually back up their assertions with evidence. Perhaps you can try acting like one and do the same here.

        • Liberals like Dick Durbin are known for their hatred of the military. It’s not their only example of anti-military bigotry

          - So is it liberals in general, or Dick Durbin specifically? Please make up your mind.

          Fort Hood shooting

          - What about it?

          Phony soldier Jesse MacBeth

          - Which is supposed to mean what?

          Murder of William Long

          - How is this relevant?

          Vandalism of military recruitment centers

          - By who?

          CodePink

          - What’s that supposed to mean?

          Protests against soldiers

          Who is protesting against soldiers?

          Calling soldiers “war criminals”

          - What else are you supposed to call people who commit war crimes?

          Please provide an actual example of Dick Durbin’s hatred for the military. Thanks.

  3. Robert Spencer’s claims make sense, all he wants is Muslims to abide by the law and to adapt to Western life-style. This works perfectly with Indian Hindus and Sikhs, Vietnamese Buddhists and African animists to name only a few. Why doesn’t it work with Muslims? The answer is simple, because Islam is intrinsically violent against non-Muslims.

    • Except that answer of yours is “intrinsically” false. Plus, the only ones who want to go beyond the law, are anti-Islam, anti-Muslim bigots, who wish to unilaterally, and extrajudically target Muslims not guilty of any actual crime.

      As for “western lifestyle”, that is extremely subjective. It needs to be defined officially before you can ask anyone to abide by it.

    • Most Muslims already abide by the law. If all of them didn’t abide by the law, as you are implying, then they would all be in jail.

      :D

    • Furthermore, the alleged lack of assimilation on the part of some Muslims, does not, in anyway, support the idea that Islam is intrinsically violent against non-Muslims.

      Here’s all the false ideas people have about Islam and Muslims:

      There is a Muslim conspiracy to unilaterally enforce Sharia law against non-Muslims – false

      Islam is an inherently violent religion – false

      Islam is inherently hostile towards non-Muslims – false

      Islam is misogynistic – false

      Honor killings are a part of Islam – false

      Terrorism is inherently Islamic – false

      Taqiyya permits lying to non-Muslims about Islam – false

      All/most Muslims are extremists, fanatics and/or terrorists – false

      Islam is an inherently fascist religion – false

      It’s time people realized that the Islam vs. “the West” dichotomy is a farce.

      • I’m sorry Awesome, but Islam is an inherently violent religion, it’s hostile to non-Muslims. What you did to my country, Europe is outrageous. You invaded Spain, our great philosopher Moses ben Maimon had to flee, as he would either have been killed or forced to convert. The Spanish got rid of your rule and freed themselves.
        Islam is an inherently fascist religion, that’s true, the grand mufti of Jerusalem supported Hitler to kill the European Jews. Islam is intrinsically anti-semitic, you can’t deny that. You only deny things, but don’t give proofs , as they are none.

        • Aberration, please enlighten us as to where Moses Maimonides escaped to?

          To Mooslim Egypt!

          He was born during the Golden Age of Jewish Culture. Where was this? In Mooslim Spain!

          Islam isn’t intolerant. It all depended on the Muslim rulers at the time.

          “The Spanish got rid of your rule and freed themselves.”

          Could you please tell us how the Jews fared at the hands of the peaceful tolerant Spanish Catholics during the Reconquista?

        • Aberration:

          “What you did to my country, Europe is outrageous.”

          Europe isn’t a country, moron. Firstly, the biggest criminals in European history were Europeans, undoubtedly. Hitler, Mussolini, et cetera were all Europeans raised on the Western, Judeo-Christian tradition (“Judeo-Christian” being a spuriously used term that only gained prominence after the Holocaust). Secondly, what exactly did “we” do to Europe? Muslim Spain was the wealthiest, most powerful country in Western Europe for part of the Medieval Era. For the most part, Christians and Jews were fleeing to Muslim Spain, not Christian France or Italy. After the Christians took over Spain and began their policy of ethnically cleansing Muslims and Jews, the two religious minorities fled to the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans took in hundreds of thousands of Spanish Jews.

          “You invaded Spain, our great philosopher Moses ben Maimon had to flee, as he would either have been killed or forced to convert.”

          It’s telling that the greatest Jewish philosopher of the medieval era was raised under Muslim rule. It’s also telling how he fled to Muslim lands instead of Christian lands. Considering those facts, I don’t see how he “belongs” to you. Also, I doubt you know much about Maimonides or the Muslim conquest of Spain. It was actually Europeans Christians, some Visigoth princes specifically, who first encouraged the Muslims to invade in 711.

          “The Spanish got rid of your rule and freed themselves.”

          Sure, and they would soon “free” Spain’s native Muslim and Jewish population, and then do the same to the natives of the Americas, etc. If you knew anything about the Reconquista then you would realize how silly you sound.

          “Islam is an inherently fascist religion, that’s true, the grand mufti of Jerusalem supported Hitler to kill the European Jews.”

          I hope you realize how illogical it is to take the actions of one man as indicative of over a billion people. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims fought for the Allies. Here’s is a good comment that deals with your accusation. In short, the “grand mufti” was appointed by the British and rejected by the Palestinian ulema.

          http://www.loonwatch.com/2009/12/spencer-on-the-ropes/#comment-3515

          “Islam is intrinsically anti-semitic, you can’t deny that. You only deny things, but don’t give proofs , as they are none.”

          Let’s see what prominent Christian theologians have said about Jews.

          Catholic Thomas Aquinas: “[It is permissible] to hold the Jews in perpetual servitude because of their crime…with the sole proviso that they do not deprive them of all that is necessary to sustain life.”

          Protestant Martin Luther: “I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God’s word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.”

        • I’m sorry Awesome, but Islam is an inherently violent religion, it’s hostile to non-Muslims.

          - Sorry, aberration, but your beliefs about Islam, is clouded by your sensationalism and lack of fair-mindedness.

          I know Islam better than you would even care to, and that’s why I know that you’re wrong.

          What you did to my country, Europe is outrageous.

          - Europe isn’t a country, it is a continent, and it doesn’t belong exclusively to any ethnic nor religious group.

          Furthermore, any Muslim invasion of Europe is not intrinsically related to Islam, nor is it relevant to the intricacies of Islam.

          You invaded Spain, our great philosopher Moses ben Maimon had to flee, as he would either have been killed or forced to convert.

          - Correction, when the strict Almohad dynasty invaded Spain, conquering it from the Almoravids, Moses ben Maimon fled, eventually arriving in Egypt under the Fatimid dynasty in 1168 CE (and then later the Ayyubid dynasty after 1171 CE), as under the Almohads, he would either have had to convert or wear identifying clothing.

          This collective “you” vs. “us” dichotomy is childishly silly and very misleading. Please try to talk more sensibly.

          The Spanish got rid of your rule and freed themselves.

          - To be more correct, the Spanish Catholic monarchs instituted the “Spanish Inquisition” to force the Spanish converts to Judaism and Islam, back into the Catholic orthodoxy, with an utlimatum to either convert, leave or die.

          Islam is an inherently fascist religion, that’s true, the grand mufti of Jerusalem supported Hitler to kill the European Jews.

          - The “Grand Mufti”; al-Hajj Amin Husseini’s support of the Nazis during World War II had nothing to do with Islam, and proves nothing about any alleged “inherent fascism” with Islam. You are again playing the collective blame game again, and it’s time you stopped, because the world just doesn’t work that way.

          Husseini’s support of the Nazis was in the hopes of preventing the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine, ending Jewish immigration to Palestine, and providing arms to the Arab population. Husseini’s calls for jihad against the Allies were ignored by most Palestinians, who aided the Allies with men and logistical support. Several Palestinian brigades were enlisted in the British army in WWII.

          Islam is intrinsically anti-semitic, you can’t deny that.

          - Yes I can, since you haven’t proven it.

          You only deny things, but don’t give proofs , as they are none.

          - The burden of proof is on the one making the claims, not on the one denying them. There is absolutely no reason to believe your claims about Islam, since you haven’t properly substantiated any of them.

          • - The burden of proof is on the one making the claims, not on the one denying them. There is absolutely no reason to believe your claims about Islam, since you haven’t properly substantiated any of them.
            ———————
            It’s in your Koran, “kill the infidels, wherever, you find them”. As for anti-Semitism “Jews are apes and pigs” that’s in your unholy book as well. Being Jewish, I’ve got no reason to defend Christian anti-Semitism, but unlike Muslims the Christians have learned a lesson. In 1962 there was the second concile of the roman Catholic church, the present pope Benedict was one of the leading Catholic thinkers who proclaimed that Jesus was not killed by the Jews. You, the Muslims, protested, although in your unholy Koran you say that Jesus wasn’t crucified, only a look alike. So much about logical thinking which is totatally alien to Muslims.

            Yep, I’m Jewish and European. Europe is a continent , ok but for me it’s my country. We Europeans share a common culture, although we’ve got different languages and different customs.
            But what we’ve got in common is a Judeo-Christian religious tradition and enlightenment which is alien to Muslims as you’re totally irrational.

          • “It’s in your Koran, “kill the infidels, wherever, you find them”. As for anti-Semitism “Jews are apes and pigs” that’s in your unholy book as well.”

            Nope. You obviously misquoted the Quran. There is no verse which gives Muslims permission to kill “infidels wherever you may find them”. You may be referring to Verse 9:5 which gave permission to the Muslims in Medina to attack the Polytheists if they continue violating the Peace Treaty. But even this verse does not mean what you claim. So please, O eminent scholar of the Quran, give me the verse which says that I have to kill my next door neighbour, who I have known for 7 years.

            I don’t know what you are talking about because my Prophet says something else. When a sheep was slaughtered in Medina, the Prophet asked “Have you sent some meat as a present to our Jewish neighbour?” .

            No where does the Quran say that all “Jews are apes and pigs”. I have a verse in mind that you might be referring to, but it too contradicts your claim.

            “You, the Muslims, protested, although in your unholy Koran you say that Jesus wasn’t crucified, only a look alike.”

            That saved the Jews from a lot of persecution. For a long time Christians believed that Jews had killed Jesus and so the Jews were treated very harshly in Christian countries. In Islam, the Jews are absolved of deicide. So from the very beginning, Islam has denied that Jews had killed Jesus. The Church said this in the 1960s, Islam said this 1400 years ago.

            As a result, Jews were treated better in Muslim countries than Christian countries.

            http://www.loonwatch.com/2009/11/the-churchs-doctrine-of-perpetual-servitude-was-worse-than-dhimmitude/

            Bernard Lewis, a Jewish scholar of Islam, agrees with this conclusion.

          • It’s in your Koran, “kill the infidels, wherever, you find them”.
            ————————–

            -What’s actually in the Holy Qur’an:

            Qur’an 9:1-10:

            “The abrogation of the pact (is hereby being proclaimed) by Allah and His messenger _ the pact you made with (some of) the polytheist (tribes). So, (Oh idolaters)! you may (stay and) move about in the land (in peace) for four months. You should know that you shall definitely not render Allah powerless. Allah is surely going to disgrace you. An announcement for mankind from Allah and His messenger on the great day of Hajj (the pilgrimage): Allah and His messenger are free of any obligation concerning the Polytheists _ (those accepting partners with Allah). It is (Oh Idolaters!) better for you to (desist and) repent. For if you turn away, remember that you are unable to frustrate (and elude the grip of) Allah. So, warn the unbelievers of a painful punishment! Except for those polytheist with whom you entered into a pact, and who neither violated any of its conditions, nor aided others against you. Honor (all aspects of) the pact made with them, for the duration of its term. Indeed, Allah loves those who are pious. After the sacred months _ (the grace period of four months) _ have expired, slay them wherever you find them. Seize them, besiege them and lie in ambush for them at all possible places. But if they repent, establish ‘salat’, and pay the ‘zakat’, then let them go their way. Of course, Allah is the most Forgiving and the most Merciful. If any of the idolaters asks you for an asylum, give him refuge till he hears the word of Allah _ (the Qur’an). After that, escort him to a safe place. That, because they are a people who do not know. How can there exist an obligation (of the pact) upon Allah and His messenger in the case of the idolaters? Except for those with whom you entered into a pact in the vicinity of the Holy mosque. So, abide by the pact as long as they remain true (and abide). Indeed, Allah loves those who are dutiful. How (can there be a pact since) whenever they gain an upper hand over you they neither honor the kinship ties, nor the obligation of the pact. With their mouths they (utter words to) appease (and assuage) you, even though their hearts refuse. Most of them are (immoral and) rebellious! They traded away the verses (and signs) of Allah for a small gain. Thus, they prevented (people) from (following) His way. What they used to do was really despicable! In the case of the believers, they do not honor kinship ties, or the pact. Of course, it is they who are the offenders _ (the transgressors).”

            So clearly, “kill them wherever you find them” is in regards to pact violators, and not just the idolators in general. The fact that they are allowed to seek asylum, underscores the fact that it is only against hostile enemies.

            —————
            As for anti-Semitism “Jews are apes and pigs” that’s in your unholy book as well.
            ————————-

            - No it isn’t. What’s actually in the Holy Qur’an, is that God turned the transgressors into apes and pigs, and specifically those who violated the Sabbath were turned into apes:

            Qur’an 2:63-66:

            And (remember) when We got a firm pledge from you as We caused the mountain, ‘Toor’, to tower high above you. (We said), “Hold on fast, with all your strength, to what We grant you; and (always) remember the guidance it contains. Perhaps you would attain piety.” But, even then you (ignored and) turned away. Had it not been for the favors of Allah upon you, and His grace, you would have been the losers (long ago). Of course, you know very well (the fate of) those of you who exceeded the bounds (and broke the laws) of Sabbath. We said (to them), “You be the apes, despised and spurned!” We turned them into an (eye opening) example for their generation, and for others to follow. (We turned them into) an admonition for the pious.

            Qur’an 7:163-167:

            Ask them about the town by the seaside that transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. The fish was plentiful in the sea on the day of the Sabbath, but on days other than the Sabbath, there was hardly any fish. Thus We put them through a trial, because they used to commit sinful acts. And then a group among them said, “Why must you preach to these people when Allah is going to destroy them (anyway), or punish them with a severe torment?” (The righteous ones replied), “You must, in order to escape blame from your Lord. It is possible that they may (heed and) fear (Allah).” They (ignored) and forgot what they had been reminded of. So We rescued the ones who forbade evil, while We inflicted a grievous punishment upon those who committed evil. They used to disobey (Allah)! Finally, when they exceeded (the bounds, and violated all) the prohibitions, We said to them, “Become apes _ despised and rejected!” Then your Lord declared that till the Day of Judgment, He would certainly continue to raise people who would persecute and torture them in the worst possible way. Your Lord is swift in retribution! He is the most Forgiving and the most Merciful!

            Qur’an 5:58-60:

            As you sound the call for (people to come to) ‘salat’, they cut jokes and make fun of it. That is because they are a people who do not use their reason. Say, “Oh people of the book! Are you hostile and vengeful towards us just because we believe in Allah, and that which was revealed to us, and revealed before us? Indeed, most of you are truly wicked!” Say, “Shall I tell you about the recompense from Allah which is certainly far worse? (Deserving a worse fate are): those whom Allah has cursed, those upon whom fell the wrath of Allah, those whom Allah turned into monkeys and pigs, and the devotees of the arrogant and the evil. Their plight is the worst; they are the farthest away from the straight path.”

            ———————-
            Being Jewish, I’ve got no reason to defend Christian anti-Semitism, but unlike Muslims the Christians have learned a lesson. In 1962 there was the second concile of the roman Catholic church, the present pope Benedict was one of the leading Catholic thinkers who proclaimed that Jesus was not killed by the Jews. You, the Muslims, protested,
            ———————–

            - This, of course, has nothing to do with “antisemitism”, and Muslims did not protest the Nostra Aetate either. Any Muslims who did protest, obviously weren’t significant enough to warrant any mention.

            Did you, personally, see Muslims protest?

            Again, this collective blame game is childish, and ironically enough, is exactly what that Vatican Council actually spoke out against with regards to Jews:

            True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. The Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ. Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel’s spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.Nostra Aetate

            I guess you missed that part where it denounces that collective blame game, which you like to play against Muslims.

            ———————–
            although in your unholy Koran you say that Jesus wasn’t crucified, only a look alike. So much about logical thinking which is totatally alien to Muslims.
            ———————–

            - Religious beliefs in general have nothing to do with “logical thinking” to begin with.

            Here is what the Holy Qur’an says:

            Qur’an 4:157:

            (We punished them because of) their (blatant and boastful) statement, “We killed Jesus, the son of Mary, the Massiah, the messenger of Allah!” But they did not kill him, and they did not crucify him! It just appeared to them to be so! Those who differ are certainly in doubt about that matter. They do not have a definite knowledge. (They have nothing) except their assumptions and conjectures. They definitely did not kill him!

            It should be clear to you that it doesn’t actually say anything about a look alike in that verse. The “look alike” story comes from other sources (both Muslim and Christian). A Muslim source, which mentions this, is the tafsir of Ibn Kathir. Christian sources that mention/allude to the look-alike explanation, include the Apocalypse of Peter and the “Gospel of Barnabas”.

            ———————
            Yep, I’m Jewish and European. Europe is a continent , ok but for me it’s my country. We Europeans share a common culture, although we’ve got different languages and different customs.
            But what we’ve got in common is a Judeo-Christian religious tradition and enlightenment which is alien to Muslims as you’re totally irrational.

            ———————-

            It doesn’t matter what Europe is to you. It doesn’t belong to you, nor Judeo-Christian tradition. European “enlightenment” did not come from Judeo-Christian tradition, but in spite of it. It came about from the Renaissance and is only maintained with secularism. The Renaissance came about from both Ancient Greek and Arabic knowledge, which were preserved and developed in the Muslim world. Muslims were influenced by Islamic injunctions such as Prophet Muhammad’s statement: “The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of martyrs”, stressing the value of knowledge. Hence, the Muslim world had become the unrivaled intellectual center for science, philosophy, medicine and education, as they championed the cause of knowledge. After Spain was reconquered from the Moors by the Europeans, the wealth of knowledge that they left behind was assimilated into Western Europe, which then brought about the Renaissance.

            If you believe Muslims are irrational, then you either don’t know anything about Muslims and/or you don’t know anything about rationality.

  4. Aberration, you might like to look at this website:

    http://www.missingpages.co.uk/index.php

    Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks has supported the message of the website. It tells of the Quranic commandment to be friendly with Jews, reminds readers of many examples of Muslim-Jewish coexistence throughout the ages and tells the story of the Jews who were saved by Muslims during the Holocaust.

  5. Aberration:

    Yep, I’m Jewish and European.

    Currently, there are more Muslims in Europe than Jews. Spain was once mostly Muslims, as were southern Ukraine and Sicily. Parts of the Caucasus and Balkans still have majority Muslim populations that are hundreds of years old. Volga Bulgaria in Russia has had a significant Muslim presence for over a thousand years. Of course, anti-Muslim bigots still like to claim that being Muslim and European is impossible because apparently those two identities are mutually exclusive. The only things they are accomplishing by doing such is spreading hatred and xenophobia, and revealing their profound ignorance of history.

    Europe is a continent , ok but for me it’s my country. We Europeans share a common culture, although we’ve got different languages and different customs.

    Europe is a continent that is divided along cultural, ethnic, and religious lines—just like all other continents (except for maybe Antarctica). “Different languages and different customs” indicates different cultures, so your claim that Europe is homogenous is blatantly false. Maybe you just like to see the world in black and white—where the monolithic good and white, “Judeo-Christian” Europe is pitted against the perpetually evil and equally monolithic Islamic hordes. I guess facts and nuance don’t matter when you think over a billion people are your implacable enemies.

    But what we’ve got in common is a Judeo-Christian religious tradition and enlightenment which is alien to Muslims as you’re totally irrational.

    “Judeo-Christian” is a term that only gained popularity after the Holocaust, when Christians were ashamed of the anti-Semitism widespread throughout their history. Even in Islamic lands, Christians were noticeably more anti-Semitic. For example, some Greek Christians reacted to the Tanzimat reforms negatively because it would make them equal to Jews. In the words of one contemporary, “We were content with the supremacy of Islam.” The term “Judeo-Christian” would probably have been met with disgust by most Jews and Christians. According to Professor Richard Bulliet:

    “The unquestioned acceptance of “Judeo-Christian civilization” as a synonym for “Western civilization” makes it clear that history is not destiny. No one with the least knowledge of the past two thousand years of relations between Christians and Jews can possibly miss the irony of linking in a single term two faith communities that decidedly did not get along during most of that period. One suspects that a heavenly poll of long-departed Jewish and Christian dignitaries would discover majorities in both camps expressing repugnance for the term.”

  6. Obviously you haven’t got a clue about our rich European culture. As Geert Wilders rightly put it in Rome, “I’m Dutch, you’re Italians we share the same civilisation, we’re only different branches of the same culture”. Or as a Montenegrian once told me, in the Balkans there are Serbs and Kroats and the Serbs are Orthodox Christians and the Kroats are Catholics and everybody who’s a Muslim is a traitor. Plain to see, Europeans wherever they’re from rejected Islam.
    We hate oppression and barbarism and that’s what sharia is, pure barbarism. Every law abiding person is most welcome overhere, but no barbaric sharia the contrary to Human Rights.

    • “and everybody who’s a Muslim is a traitor”

      Sorry, my history is a little dusty. Can you please remind me how brilliantly the peaceful, tolerant Christians treated their European Jewish brothers through the ages and recognised them as part of a “Judeo-Christian civilisation”?

      Or must that be the Moofti’s fault as well…

      I see you haven’t touched this article, I wonder why?
      http://www.loonwatch.com/2009/11/the-churchs-doctrine-of-perpetual-servitude-was-worse-than-dhimmitude/

    • Obviously you haven’t got a clue about our rich European culture. As Geert Wilders rightly put it in Rome, “I’m Dutch, you’re Italians we share the same civilisation, we’re only different branches of the same culture”. Or as a Montenegrian once told me, in the Balkans there are Serbs and Kroats and the Serbs are Orthodox Christians and the Kroats are Catholics and everybody who’s a Muslim is a traitor. Plain to see, Europeans wherever they’re from rejected Islam.
      We hate oppression and barbarism and that’s what sharia is, pure barbarism. Every law abiding person is most welcome overhere, but no barbaric sharia the contrary to Human Rights.

      In reality, the European rejection of Islam has nothing to do with oppression and barbarism (which Europeans, historically, are themselves notorious for), nor “Sharia” (which you know nothing about), and it never did. Rather, it is, and has always been, about racism against non-Europeans, and religious zealotry against competing religions.

    • Nice to see that instead of responding to our points, “aberration” goes off on a tangent about how Europeans are supposedly united against Islam—a religion he obviously knows nothing about.

      “Or as a Montenegrian once told me, in the Balkans there are Serbs and Kroats and the Serbs are Orthodox Christians and the Kroats are Catholics and everybody who’s a Muslim is a traitor.”

      If my memory is correct, the Serbs have long regarded the Bosnian Muslims as traitors. This anti-Muslim sentiment reached its peak during the Bosnian genocide, when tens of thousands of evil Muslim were raped and/or killed. In the words of one defender of Western civilization:

      “You should have already left this town. We’ll make you have Serbian babies who will be Christians.”

  7. Look at my scary name, abreviation, better run in fear. Jews where treated better in the middle east then in europe. Actualy even recently in world war two you ancesters where saved by muslims. How do you think them, by giving into brainwashing and a israeli media. Where was the hebrew language saved? What was the state relgion at the time? What book did thomas jefferson put his hand on when accepting the oath of office? let me give you a hint it has something to do with islam. Your going to accuse me of being anti semitic, i know. Becuase i dare say anything good about muslims being rightous. Wait i forget was adolf hitler muslim? or was he christian? What book did he use to justigy his action?

    • Hitler hated Jews, despised Christians and loved Islam. So much for your ideas about the genocidal dictator. He never identified with Christendom, only in his birth certificate, it says that he was a Catholic, as most Austrians are. And he never committed his atrocities on behalf of Christianity, he never referred to the Bible, unlike Muslim terrorists who keep referring to the Koran, they do what they do on behalf of Islam. That’s the difference.

      I don’t know about any Jews who were saved by Muslims in WWII. The Serbs who are orthodox Christians saved a lot of Jews, some people in France, Germany, the Netherlands did so as well. All of them were Christians. It was your mufti who killed Jews and the American author Chuck Morse even says that the mufti was more anti-Semitic than the Nazis.

      Thomas Jefferson possessed a copy of the Koran, but he never swore an oath touching it, let alone when he took on the office of presidency.

      Europeans are not racists against non-Europeans. We like to learn from Indians, Chinese, Japanese and Africans, But we can’t accept Islamic imperalism and supremacy. The only thing that we can learn from Muslims is to never adopt their barbaric way of life.

      • “Hitler…loved Islam”

        Oh yeah. No wonder he converted. No wait…
        Why don’t you act like an adult and give some proof?

        He was European, a member of this so-called “Judeo-Christian” civilisation with millions of Germans behind him.

        Many people forget that the Nazis were elected.

        “I don’t know about any Jews who were saved by Muslims in WWII”
        http://www.missingpages.co.uk/ww2.php

        “It was your mufti who killed Jews”

        Firstly, not our mufti. Muftis don’t represent Muslims. I don’t get why Islamophobes act like Mufti means Muslim king. It’s not. He was just a Mufti of one city, with no power at all. He’s only in charge of religious affairs. And it was your European, Western educated Hitler and his millions of supporters that killed Jews. Maybe a Mufti sitting many miles away agreed with it, but it was peaceful, tolerant Germans running the camps.

        “Europeans are not racists against non-Europeans. ”

        :lol: I suppose I was called “Pakiiii!” out of love and respect.

        • Aberration seems to be a very angsty, emotional fellow. Yet, he likes to pretend to be on the side of “rationality”, which emotion is the polar opposite of.

          It seems to be the problem with the anti-Islam, anti-Muslim rabble; they like to use every word and argument they can come up with, to either promote themselves, or demonize Muslims and Islam, with little regard for the meanings of what they’re actually saying, or whether they’re contradicting themselves.

          • You may call me whatever you like, but there’s no evidence what so ever for inconsistency. Sorry, I leave irrationality to you guys. Read “The closing of the Muslim mind” by O’Reilly, a very revealing book. Like it or not, it’s great.

          • So you’re not going to respond to the actual arguments and instead recommend a book you probably haven’t even read.

            The inconsistency is that you whine about anti-semitism done by Muslims but side with the people who have been the worst anti-semites in history. Evidently, anti-semitism isn’t your problem. Muslims are.

            “Sorry, I leave irrationality to you guys. ”

            Ha! Read over this page again. You were arguing about the Quran but when we responded you became silent and started complaining about something else.

          • You may call me whatever you like, but there’s no evidence what so ever for inconsistency.

            - There is if you looked at the arguments and claims, objectively; people who believe that Muslims are somehow smart, devious and sophisticated enough to orchestrate the destruction of Western Civilization, somehow also manage to believe that Muslims are ignorant, brainwashed, irrational, and backwards.

            The two beliefs are mutually contradictory, and only an irrational person who believes things without thinking about them would honestly believe both.

            Sorry, I leave irrationality to you guys.

            - How ironic, that in your irrationality, you call others irrational.

            Read “The closing of the Muslim mind” by O’Reilly, a very revealing book. Like it or not, it’s great.

            - There’s no need to, as I’m already well aware of the subject it talks about, i.e. the decline of the Islamic civilization, and I’ve read enough on it, to know the causes.

  8. heres some cool stuff though

    The history of the relationship between America and Muslim communities is deeper and more complex than the common perception might suggest. Thomas Jefferson taught himself Arabic using his own Quran kept in his personal library, and had the first known presidential Iftaar by breaking fast with the Tunisian Ambassador at sunset. President Dwight Eisenhower attended the dedication ceremony of the Islamic Center in Washington, D.C. on June 28, 1957. President Bill Clinton issued the first presidential greeting for Ramadan, appointed the first Muslim American ambassador, M. Osman Siddique, to Fiji, and sent the first presidential Eid al-Adha greeting to Muslims. And one year after President George W. Bush placed the Holy Quran in the White House library in 2005, Representative Keith Ellison took the oath of office on the same Quran owned by Thomas Jefferson two hundred years before. Source: The President in the Middle East

  9. whoops thomas jeffersonj did not put his hand on the quran when taking the oath, i heard that from an addmittidly erred website

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